(Raffaella Mezzanzanica)
“It is not the strongest of the species that survives but the most adaptable” – Charles Darwin
If you go and check Pat Mastelotto’s official web page (https://www.patmastelotto.com) you will find this quote at the very beginning.
When talking about him, there is nothing more true than this, because, even if his name is mostly associated with King Crimson, the band he has been playing with since 1994, Pat Mastelotto is recognized as being one of the most adaptable drummers of all times, having been played alongside incredible artists as session drummer, but also for his contribution to some incredible music projects such as O.R.k and Stick Men.
There is no other way to put it: Pat Mastelotto is a natural born drummer!
In this interview, we talked about his first steps into drumming and his experience as a member of King Crimson. He also gave some insights on the new O.R.k album (get ready for the first single to be released on June 22!) and his collaboration with Marco Machera, an Italian singer, songwriter based in Brussels (Belgium).
Q.: When did you start playing? Is there a specific reason why you chose the drums as your instrument?
P.M.: I started playing drums when I was really young, around 10 years old. I attended a school for the Arts and I started learning the French horn. Then my teacher looked at me and at my big hands and told me I had to try playing drums. So, it was really the teacher who defined it. I didn’t define it.
Q.: What do you remember of your first experiences as a musician?
P.M.: I started out playing in a band, when I was like eleven years old. By the time I was fourteen or fifteen I ended up in a band with much older students. They were all twenty-one years old. We started to play bars. Even if I was very young I played five nights a week in nightclubs in Northern California. When I was seventeen, I left high school and the whole band moved to San Francisco for a few months. Then, the band broke up and that was when I decided to move to Los Angeles. I have always liked the idea of being part of many bands. Studio work was just a way to work with more bands.
Q.: After that, in 1983 you co-founded Mr. Mister, a band with a more pop rock, new wave sound. You had an incredible success with the album “Welcome to the Real World” and with the two singles “Broken Wings” and “Kyrie”. We are currently facing a return to the sound of the ‘80s. What would you think if you had to imagine these songs to be published today?
P.M.: Well. It would depend on the artists that do that. Some artists have made new recordings. I don’t hear them all so I don’t know. 2Pac Shakur, for example, recorded a version of “Broken Wings”. He put his poetry and it became a big platinum record. I think that people can do whatever they want with our songs. I like hearing Aloyna, Clay Akins and others. recently covered by another band HSCC and they added new chords, straightened out the beat. It’s very cool but the coolest has to be Miles Davis covering Broken Wings (studio version is unreleased but you can hear in some of Miles last live shows).
Q.: Since then you have performed and contributed to many other projects and collaborated with many other artists. Then, in 1994 you joined King Crimson and started this adventure inside the world of progressive music. Can you tell me more about the experience with this incredible and constantly evolving band?
P.M.: Since I was a boy I was a huge fan of King Crimson. I listened to their music for the first time when I was about thirteen years old and I saw them live for the first time when I was sixteen. I absolutely adored the band. The Beatles, The Weather Report and King Crimson were the three best bands to me as a teenager. They were very inspiring for me. I met Robert (Fripp) when we played with David Sylvian. Robert and David had a lineup and we toured together for several months. Few weeks after the tour ended, Robert called me and invited me to join King Crimson saying that he had a new vision for the band with two drummers. I was very excited, really overjoyed to be able to play with the band, but also very concerned that it would start and people would not be happy. King Crimson has a long history of breaking up. People disagree inside the band and start to become uncomfortable. So, when Robert called me – it was January 1994 – I was concerned because he explained how he had imagined the next three years for the band in that first call, telling me I should go to Woodstock to make some recordings and make an EP, then going to Argentina to do some rehearsing, then do some concerts, playing in new materials etc. We spent a month in Argentina and composed or finished composing a lot of material, organizing the arrangements. We went almost directly to record at Real World Studio in Bath, England. a little Christmas break before starting the European tour, the North America tour and so on. It was all presented in that first phone call. I was apprehensive and I told him we should test all of that somehow because if we started this process and someone – for example, Bill Bruford – was not happy, it would have been very unpleasant. Therefore, we arranged to have a meeting. When Robert called I was just preparing to leave to Japan and then to Sweden with Jay Graydon Band, but I told Robert I could change my flights and come over to London. We sorted that and we had a preliminary rehearsal at Bill’s house.
Q.: You have been playing with King Crimson for a long time but, as you mentioned, there were many musicians before you who left the band because of disagreements. What is your secret for being a long lasting member?
P.M.: I don’t know but I don’t want to analyze it that much. I’m just happy.
Q.: When I listen to King Crimson and when I see you playing live, especially since you started with the new lineup including three drummers, I think about a band which is more like an orchestra, with a very regimented style of playing, rehearsing and approaching music. Is this what really happens?
P.M.: Yes, you’re right. it is precisely like that. We rehearse a lot. The current, the big King Crimson lineup for the last five/six years, that’s more rehearsal than I’ve ever done in any band. We are not rehearsing production. We are not rehearsing lights or fireworks, we are just rehearsing the music. It takes a lot of time and there is a lot of care. Just the drummers, we rehearse alone. There’s a very clever thing that Robert does. We do rehearsals and then we stop. You have a break so that you can go home and practice what you need to. Then, we come back and we rehearse again. It is very expensive because we usually rehearse together in England but, on the other hand, it is very helpful because everybody has the chance to think and woodshed. Then, our last rehearsal is usually before the very first performance of the tour, so those could be anywhere. But, yes, it is very scripted. We also have some charts. But when I play with King Crimson I don’t really have a chart. I just memorize the music. But the charts are very good. This way everyone is organized. It can be a big problem with the arrangements because they are long and they don’t repeat. It’s very complicated to understand and communicate where to start from. The charts help us to identify where we have to focus, even if everyone uses his own terminology.
Q.: How do you find playing with two other drummers?
P.M.: You always have to pay attention, be aware, be listening. The synchronization is the hardest part. And, sometimes, intentionally playing out of sync. We don’t always play in unison. Actually, we almost never play unison. Our parts can be flexible but the pieces, as for a puzzle, have to fit together.
Q.: And with this new lineup, do you like being in front of the stage?
P.M.: I don’t like it at all. It’s difficult to hear, you can’t see the other musicians. It makes the drums very loud for the audience. Three drummers at the front of the stage makes it difficult also for the sound man to control and make a good balance. This is the reason why drummers are usually in the back, even when playing in an orchestra.
Q.: Can you do something about it?
P.M.: Robert had decided this before we started playing together, before we even met. He told me that the very first time on the phone. There will be three drummers and they will be to the front. Sometimes, because of the stage, Gavin can’t even see Robert because he is behind him so we have to pass the cue.
Q.: King Crimson has always been a very controversial band. There’s also been a lot of talks and controversy when “In the Court of Crimson King”, the recent documentary celebrating the 50th anniversary since the band was founded was presented. Some people said that it’s a documentary about Robert Fripp and not about the band. What is your view on it?
P.M.: The documentary is not out yet. It’s been premiered a few times and they’re trying to find distribution. There’s a lot of competition as far as documentary films are concerned. It’s still in negotiation for a big release. As a band, we did not have much to do with the video at all. Robert chose Toby Amies as the director because he was NOT a Crimson fan. Toby came to the 50th year-anniversary tour with us. He basically stayed with us for almost two years. He finished the movie. I did not see it but Robert and David Singleton saw it and I guess they thought it was unacceptable and they squashed it. That was called CosmicFuck so Toby did a completely new documentary. Apparently, the first movie did not have any music in it. It was all images and dialogues. Now your question: Is it about Robert or is it about King Crimson? This is a line that goes back and forth. Many people view Robert as King Crimson and I think there wouldn’t be King Crimson at all without Robert. The band would have stopped a long time ago. Robert had a great passion and joy about the band. He understood the direction and kept the fire alive. It’s not unusual that he is the dominant feature in the film. The film also deals a lot with Bill Rieflin being sick. We all had been knowing that he was going to pass for a long time. We did not know when, but we knew it was coming soon. That was something I thought about every night we played. The first time we met in 2014 – Bill was coming out of the hospital. Bill and I were the two American drummers in the band. For this reason, Bill and I were together a lot. When we were in England, the other band members went home and Bill and I went to dinner, it is always an experience ordering with Bill 🙂 Puttanesca! . Bill and I also rode together in the car every day, did laundry and day to day stuff so we hung while he was very sick. That put a different perspective on the urgency of music or the power of music. If people are looking for a documentary about King Crimson day-to-day routine, with backstage banter, interviews of ancient talking heads etc., well, it’s not like that. There are many people in the audience Toby talks to. He also spends a lot of time trying to understand the reason why the audience comes back, the reason why you like King Crimson, the reason why you come and then you come back again, and again, and again. Folks have revelations when you are listening to King Crimson. And you realize later about those and then you want to see King Crimson again to get more of that feeling. That makes an expectation. Well, this is true for every band, but Robert is very sensitive to this. Frictions come up in the band, the press gets involved and this makes people have opinions even before listening. They ignore the evolution. King Crimson is an organic organism, therefore it’s going to change. If it stays the same, it dies.
Q.: In 2007, you formed Stick Men, together with Tony Levin and Michael Bernier and then with Markus Reuter. You’ve recently been touring with them in the USA. How was being back to live music?
P.M.: It was great. I had the chance to see, again, how much music affects people. When we tour with King Crimson there are too many people and we can’t have a conversation with the audience. Stick Men audience is much smaller, like a few hundred people. We tell stories, we sign and take pictures. This allows us to have a lot of feedback from the people. It gives you a lot of inspiration listening to people telling you how much your music means to them. It low budget ,Tony Levin is driving his car and I sit in the back. Some of the places on this tour have very strict Covid rules, even for us, therefore we had to take Covid tests. Unfortunately, regardless of the testing we all got sick. We were in the car together and I started sneezing. At first I thought it was my allergy. But then Markus Reuter got sick. By then, we had fans who had come to Chicago sending us e-mails telling us they had tested positive to Covid, asking if we were ok. Nowadays you become more apprehensive if you had to stay in a car with other people day after day.
Q.: You’re right. As fans, when we go to see a band playing live we also like the interaction but, as you mentioned, we miss that part with King Crimson, even if the music is awesome. What do you think?
P.M.: It’s a little bit awkward for all of us in the band to engage after show, but we appreciate Robert’s feeling and we want to support his view.
Q.: You are also a member of another incredible supergroup, O.R.k, together with Carmelo Pipitone (Marta sui Tubi, guitar), Colin Edwin (Porcupine Tree, bass), and LEF (Obake, Berserk!, vocals, keys). I know there’s something new on the horizon for the band. Can you share some insights?
P.M.: We have made a new record, which is going to be our fourth record together. It will be published on Kscope, our label. We started recording it in 2019 sharing files, considering that I live in the United States, Carmelo and LEF live in Italy and Colin lives in England. That’s basically how we have made all our four albums. O.R.k writings do not usually start with me. I receive files with a sketch of the song. I make some drumming, send it back and then start to shape it. Sometimes it comes back to me and my favorite part of the song is gone or maybe they have a whole new verse. As this process continues, some songs get stronger and some other songs get weaker. We probably had ten or twelve songs almost done before Covid but during the extra time we had we did another ten or twelve songs. And I know it because of my session numbers which went to twenty-four. Oddly in March 2020 LEF sent a sketch for a ballad called Goodbye my Friend and it arrived the day Bill after died and that got me into that what if this is the last record I ever make headspace.The record is very strong from a composition perspective. As it always happens with O.R.k is progressive music, almost heavy metal sometimes. But it’s also pop. Sometime it’s very ‘80s because Carmelo (Pipitone) and Lef are younger than me. They experienced that music in their teenage years. Maybe not Mr. Mister but contemporary like Duran Duran as well as grunge music of the early 90s. I hear that in their songwriting. I also hear opera because of the way Lef is trained. Carmelo is just a punk. He wants power, lots of muscle. But the point is that with O.R.k we do not do twelve-minute songs, we do not even do six-minutes, we definitely squeeze songs, consolidate them and do short songs “don’t bore us get to the chorus”. There’s a lot of production details especially from LEF and I suggested my friend, the producer Machine – he produced the “The Power to Believe” with King Crimson – in for the mixing . The album sounds great . This is my favorite drum sound in a very long time. It has tremendous power, clarity and density. Slight delay because Adam Jones (Tool) did the artwork and he was back and forth touring whilst sending me texts with exploding skulls. The album will be published in Fall 2022 although Kscope is going to release a single in a few weeks (June 22). Spoiler alert The album features a duet where Lef sings together with Alice (Visconti) that is incredible, epic Ork squeezed into a 4min bottle
Q.: You also collaborated with Marco Machera. I know that there’s something you’re also working on with him right now. Can you tell me more?
P.M.: Marco is great. I think he is such a talent. I played on a few of his other records and we became friends. Whenever we play with Stick Men or O.R.k in Italy, he comes and plays with us. He is a wonderful songwriter. Sometimes I do not know what I want to do with my own music like A Romantics Guide to King Crimson, or Steven Wilson remixing, so I give Marco a call and I ask him for advice because I know that he listens to the whole song and will give good perspective. We have a good connection. I think his new record is brilliant.
Q.: Going back to King Crimson, let’s talk about “21st Century Schizoid Man”, a song which defined a genre but which was also released as an antiwar anthem. How does it make you feel to play this song today considering what’s happening in the world right now?
P.M.: This war in Ukraine seems like insanity to me. It’s just happened so fast. After predicting it for a few months, when it really happened it left us in shock. Yes, it does make some of the music more relevant.
